This "Paper Tiger" Has Teeth

>> Tuesday, May 3, 2011

"America is a paper tiger" ~ Osama bin Laden

I've been too busy to comment on the termination of Osama bin Laden, and, as it turns out, that may have been a blessing.

Now that further information has surfaced, I can make a more informed comment.

Stop! Don't shoot!

Upon first hearing that Osama was dead, my first thought was, "Big deal. Someone else will just step in and take his place. It's not over." I still think that, except, his death is a big deal.

Then, I heard that Obama "authorized" the operation. He gave the "Kill" order.

Now, I admit I have little to no knowledge of military operations, and certainly less knowledge of covert military operations, but I seem to remember President George W. Bush authorized the military to capture and kill bin Laden a decade ago.

Was this authorization ever rescinded?

If not, Obama did not need to authorize the operation that resulted in the death of Osama bin Laden. Taking out bin Laden was the armed forces' mission, and has been their mission for the last ten years.

Mission accomplished.

Now, Obama is taking credit for this victory. This is the same man who campaigned on getting the U.S. out of the war by surrendering. He is also the same man who promised to close GITMO, and aggressively pushed for the prosecution of the CIA operatives who interrogated the Muslim terrorist detainees, calling our techniques "torture".

And yet, it was those very "techniques" that gave us the information that, in turn, led to Osama bin Laden's demise.

So, apparently, Obama gets the credit in spite of himself.

Two things bother me about the subsequent burial of Osama at sea:

I understand the stated reasons for burying him at sea, but they don't pass muster with me.

1. The first reason stated was they buried him at sea to prevent Osama's rabid followers from building a shrine at the site of Osama's grave. OK. So they have prevented Muslim extremists from creating a shrine to Osama on his gravesite. But, nevertheless, shrines can, and likely will, be created at his place of birth, place of death, and any of thousands of sites scattered in between.

So, what, if anything, did burial at sea accomplish, other than generate speculation that Osama might not really be dead? You know conspiracy theorists will have a field day with that one.

Remember the theories that Hitler was still alive somewhere and plotting his revenge?

At least there was never any doubt that Mussolini was dead.

2. The second stated reason for burial at sea was because Obama (apparently, since he had the responsibility of making such decisions) insisted we give bin Laden a proper Muslim send-off out of respect for the Islamic traditions and customs.

This offends me. How does this vermin deserve respect from us? From anyone? In my opinion, his body should have been placed in some very public place and left there with 24 hour video surveillance until his body decays into dust.

To hell with respect for Muslim tradition and customs. They are a false religion in the first place.

In my opinion, he shouldn't have been killed at all. Rather, he should have been captured and incarcerated for the rest of his life in a prison with no other inmates and no outside contact at all, ala Rudolph Hess in Spandau Prison. No newspapers. No TV. No DVD's, No computers. No visitors. At all. Until his lonely, anonymous death.

In this way, he becomes virtually ineffective as a leader of terrorists. He cannot be a martyr because he has not died a martyr's death. He becomes his own worst nightmare:

He becomes insignificant.

Osama bin Laden once famously said, "America is a paper tiger".

Evidently, this "paper tiger" has some pretty sharp teeth.

Cross posted at Casting Pearls Before Swine


ELAshley May 3, 2011 at 4:21 PM  

A few points... maybe more.

1) Yes, Bush first instructed the CIA to get Osama 'dead or alive.' That order has never been rescinded. Obama may or may not have 'reaffirmed' that order to Panetta, so we'll never know unless the order was documented, and released to the public-- not that it really matters.

2) Obama deserves his day in the sun if for no other reason than the destruction of the life formerly known as 'Osama.' But he especially deserves credit for NOT striking down the protocols established by Bush; despite campaign promises to do so. Were it not for that, it's unlikely Obama would have been able to give the 'kill order,' and yes, as commander in chief, Obama has that right and responsibility. America, Osama's death notwithstanding, does not engage in assassination; not that we know of at least. Although, it could be said that that is exactly what we, as an arm and primary supporter of NATO, are doing in Libya... engaging in and attempting assassination.

3) Bush deserves credit. Period. If Bush hadn't began the offensive against Osama, Obama wouldn't have ever gone after him. It was only the promise made by Bush, and unfulfilled at the time of the last presidential campaign, that gave Obama a rallying cry. Obama, left without that rallying cry, wouldn't have gone after Osama on his own. Bush deserves credit. Period.

4) No. Obama didn't shut down Gitmo, end operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, nor has he (it is safe to assume) ceased the practice of rendition. Once in office it became quite clear to the new president Obama, that Bush had been right about these measures. I'm quite sure Obama is hiding more than he's telling.

5) You're right: Hitler's body has never been found. Correct. It was burned before allied forces got there, and without DNA, or photos (none would have been able to prove identity anyway after the corpses had burnt...) he would not have been recognizable as Hitler. Was that his body in the ashes? The world will never know for certain.

6) Burial at sea? For whatever reason, this was a huge mistake. a) it looks like Obama cares more for the traditions of Muslims than for any sense of 'chain of evidence' having the body around could provide. b) it opens the door, as you said, for conspiracy kooks, and c) unless the administration releases photos of the corpse, there will never be a complete and final end to any controversy that may arise. This was just a stupid mistake.

Obama deserves credit... for sticking to Bush's original plan. He deserves credit for catching the big fish. Bush may have piloted the boat out into the murky night, but Obama caught the fish.

Will this translate into a landslide victory for Obama next fall?

Anyone believing this makes him the undisputed winner, this far out from Nov 2012... well, a lot can happen in 18 months.

Were I in his shoes I wouldn't stake my entire campaign on this.

ELAshley May 3, 2011 at 4:28 PM  

"Virtually every tool, apparatus, technique, and policy employed by the administration to effect a successful mission to kill Osama Bin Laden, they campaigned on ending. Now they claim credit for being gutsy and courageous, when none of this would have been available to them had they had their druthers. It's a darn good thing, in retrospect, that President Obama listened to President Bush rather than Sen. Obama."

--Rush Limbaugh

Amen, Brother. Yet despite this inconvenient truth, Obama STILL deserves credit.

Mark May 3, 2011 at 4:39 PM  

I refuse to give any credit to Obama. A commenter at another blog posted this comment. I don't know where he got the info. He doesn't give it attribution. But it seems believable and in keeping with Obama's otherwise socialist, Muslim loving policies:

"Please get this out ASAP. Want specific people to know we know.

RE Osama Bin Laden. Significant push to take him out months ago. Senior WH staff resisted. This was cause of much strain between HC and Obama/Jarrett. HC and LP were in constant communication over matter – both attempted to convince administration to act. Administration feared failure and resulting negative impact on president. Intel disgusted over politics over national security. Staff resigned/left. Check timeline to corroborate.

Now Intel already leaking to media facts surrounding how info obtained. Namely from enhanced interrogation efforts via GITMO prisoners. Obama administration placed in corner on this. Some media aware of danger to president RE this and attempting protection. Others looking for further investigation. We are pushing for them to follow through and already meeting with some access.

Point of determination made FOR Obama not BY Obama. Will clarify as details become more clear. Very clear divide between Military and WH. Jarrett marginalized 100% on decision to take out OBL. She played no part. BD worked with LP and HC to form coalition to force CoC to engage.

IMPORTANT SPECIFIC: When 48 hour go order issued, CoC was told, not requested. Administration scrambled to abort. That order was overruled. This order did not originate from CoC. Repeat – this order did not originate from CoC. He complied, but did not originate.

Independent military contacts have confirmed. Stories corroborate one another. This is legit.

The killing of Osama Bin Laden was in fact a Coup within Obama WH."

Speaking with additional contacts RE info.
HC - Hillary Clinton.
LP - Leon Panetta.
BD - Bill Daley.
CoC= Chain of Command or Commander in Chief

Jim May 3, 2011 at 11:18 PM  

"That order has never been rescinded."

You know this how, exactly? And you are suggesting that the Navy Seals and CIA would have taken it upon themselves to fly choppers across a sovereign border at night and eliminated Bin Laden without direct orders from the current president. How delusional ARE you?

"If Bush hadn't began the offensive against Osama, Obama wouldn't have ever gone after him."

You know this how, exactly?

Bush said in 2002 that OBL was not really a priority for the US anymore. In 2005, the CIA's OBL unit was disbanded.

Bush failed to kill or capture Bin Laden and gave up. Obama the candidate pledged that if OBL was found even within Pakistan he would give the order to capture or kill him.

Bush gave up. Obama followed through. The credit goes the the CIA for gathering, interpreting and making actionable the intelligence, the Navy SEALS for the training and near flawless carrying out of the assignment, and President Obama for giving the assignment and pulling the operational "trigger".

Bush gave up. Obama followed through.

Jim May 3, 2011 at 11:20 PM  

"I don't know where he got the info."

Out of his ass, obviously. Spaceballs is more factual than this drivel. You will believe ANYTHING that casts a bad light, however false, on Obama.

Mark May 4, 2011 at 3:56 AM  

Jim, you say, "Obama the candidate pledged that if OBL was found even within Pakistan he would give the order to capture or kill him.

Yeah. Obama the candidate pledged a lot of things, and has so far reneged on nearly every one of them. Is GITMO closed? Has the U.S. Withdrawn our forces in Iraq? Afghanistan? This so-called anti-war president not only didn't end the wars, as he promised, he started another one, without the approval of the Congress. And so on and so on.

Now, we are finding out that Obama waited 16 hours before making the decision to "give the order". I don't know if the above anonymous commenter was correct or not, but even if he isn't, Obama waited 16 hours. As usual, Obama voted "present", at least, until his hand was forced. Yeah. He's real gutsy. NOT!

ELAshley May 4, 2011 at 8:08 AM  

"Bush gave up. Obama followed through."

And this says all we need to know about your capacity for honesty and fairness. With this as your tag there's no point in discussing any other facet of your comment. If you truly believe this; that Bush gave up, then you ARE the first class idiot we all thought you were. You are a fool if you believe it, because only a fool would say it.

ELAshley May 4, 2011 at 8:25 AM  

Mark, If your anonymous commenter is correct, and it can be substantiated, this could prove deadly to Obama's hopes for a second term. Also, knowing what we already know about Obama [his fecklessness, inexperience, and favoritism toward Muslim issues], this news is not particularly surprising.

Also not particularly surprising is Jim's inability to accept anything critical of his messiah at face value; forgetting any merit the criticism may or may not have, Jim throws it out immediately as bunk, because he simply cannot stomach the thought that his god may be wrong about anything. Especially when the accusation comes from someone who does not generally support the object of his veneration.

Mark May 4, 2011 at 9:11 AM  

All I know about the anonymous commenter is that he is a retired Major in one of the armed services with more than a little insight into covert military operations. He might know, and then again, he may be, like us, simply surmising.

ELAshley May 4, 2011 at 9:19 AM  

I'll take the experienced 'surmising' of a retired Major. Assuming... of course.

Did Obama really take a 16 hour nap before being forced into doing what should have only taken 16 seconds... or less?

This is as potentially devastating to Obama's reelection chances as your anonymous commenter. There should have been NO need to 'think it over.' I'd be interested to know if this report is credible/accurate.

Mark May 4, 2011 at 9:23 AM  

I understand, Jim. I realize it's very hard to watch your hero turn into an idol of clay, and there's nothing you can do about it. It's kind of like how I feel about finding out a Strong Conservative Republican congressman is a pedophile.

But, before you dismiss the Major's comment, check this out

ELAshley May 4, 2011 at 9:32 AM  

Here's the link to the article Malcontent references at his place...

Obama took SIXTEEN HOURS to make up his mind about Bin Laden mission

And this supplemental piece, same source...

Revealed: The disagreements and tension in the White House bunker as SEALs closed in on their prey halfway around the world

Interestingly, I'm finding it difficult to find any of this in a US paper. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place. Mark? Can you find anything stateside?

ELAshley May 4, 2011 at 9:34 AM  

Well, it appears you did find something, but can we find this in the NYT, or Washington Post?

ELAshley May 4, 2011 at 9:38 AM  

It's good that Osama's dead, but the habitual dithering of this president is... I have no words. I am shocked that ANY one, even president Obama, would take as long as he did to get bin Laden.

This is not good news for Obama. It makes him look weak... er.

Mark May 4, 2011 at 9:49 AM  

The New York Slimes or the Washington Compost?

You gotta be kidding. Those two Liberal rags would never report anything negative about their God, Obama.

You'd have better luck finding a needle in a haystack, or an honest Liberal.

ELAshley May 4, 2011 at 11:28 AM  

Of course any mention of this in the NYT or WP would be of the refutation variety, but that in and of itself would lend quite a bit of weight to the events themselves. That the NYT and WP felt they had to come out and offer a redefining of the events would give the events themselves more weight. Not that they don't already carry weight, but I'm just saying, I want to see these rags perform magnificent feats of gymnastics defending what appears to be indefensible.

BenT - the unbeliever,  May 4, 2011 at 1:50 PM  

1. Do we send ground troops or use a bomb?
2. How many civilian casualties can we accept from a bomb?
3. Do we tell Pakistan?
4. What if Pakistan fires on our transports?
5. Do we tell our allies?
6. Do we tell the soldiers who they're after?
7. What if bin Laden isn't in the compound?
8. How does this affect the democratic uprisings in the Middle East?
9. If we kill Osama what do we do with the body?
10. How can we make sure it's him?
11. Do we need to make preparations for reprisals?
12. How long do we wait to announce if we're successful?
13. What if the choppers are shot down?

That's just me sitting and thinking about the operation for 16 seconds. I fucking hope the president took more time than that to consider such a major decision.

As far as the report saying Leon Panetta took the decision from the president...It appears about two years ago this blogger on a little-known site began reporting on conversations with a "White House Insider" only if you read further you find out the "White House Insider" apparently worked on the pres. campaign and initial West Wing staff, since let go, but still gets reports from a current west Wing staffer. So essentially unsourced second-hand hearsay reports. Since Ulster has stared posting these reports they've been uniformly negative to the pres and first lady. They've also been completely unconfirmed by anyone in any way.

Now supposedly the two days after the bin Laden killing is announced, this reporter/blogger Ulster has an amazing story about the US security apparatus marginalizing the President...a story that hasn't been hinted at anywhere else in the media. A story only Ulster has...not any of the other global media. A story that would need access so far beyond top-secret.

It would need to be sourced from someone in every one of the meetings leading up to the bin Laden operation. A source willing to spill their guts on the planning of an operation that was classified beyond top-secret.

...But you have no trouble believing this one single story might be true and the statements of Leon Panetta, Hillary Clinton, Robert Gates and every other media outlet are wrong.

Mark May 4, 2011 at 2:05 PM  

What are you saying, Bent? That this anonymous source cannot be believed, but all those anonymous sources that divulge top secret information to the New York Slimes and Washington Compost are legit?

Perhaps you are just so in the tank for Obama you can't possibly believe that he might be the least bit incompetent, despite having no experience(none)in international relations.

I invite you to look with fresh, objective eyes at the now famous picture of the principles in the situation room. Which one of them looks uncomfortable? Which one of them looks like he's overwhelmed and indecisive? He's scrunched down in his seat looking for all the world that he'd rather not be there, that he wuld rather be on the links or playing some B-Ball instead of watching the demise of his friend, Osama.

ELAshley May 4, 2011 at 2:10 PM  

While I think your criticism is fair (albeit wrong), I also believe you fail to accept the one truth in ANY governmental office, be it the oval one or some other... governments, and their people, lie. The Left routinely... ROUTINELY... accused the Bush administration of lies and coverups. Do we now believe, all of a sudden, THIS administration is better at telling the truth? Simply because THIS president is of your particular political persuasion?

FUCK YES... Obama should've made the call immediately. It's not as if they didn't know for weeks where he was! The administration held a briefing on March 14th to discuss the venture. Military special forces have been practicing a mock assault for weeks now. How do I know? Do I actually have to answer that? Or can we credit the Left with a bit of commonsense?

Obama had more than 16 hours to make a decision. What we're really discussing here is why he needed 16 more hours to make the operation 'a go' after 6 weeks of talks and planning? Was he more worried about the politics of his decision than he was the rightness of it? More worried about political fallout than doing the right thing?

Now... having said that. He DID do the right thing. I'm not questioning that. What I do question is his resolve... his ability to make snap decisions when snap decisions are necessary.

And from what we've seen, I'd say no.

Mark May 4, 2011 at 2:22 PM  

1. Do we send ground troops or use a bomb?
2. How many civilian casualties can we accept from a bomb?
3. Do we tell Pakistan?
4. What if Pakistan fires on our transports?
5. Do we tell our allies?
6. Do we tell the soldiers who they're after?
7. What if bin Laden isn't in the compound?
8. How does this affect the democratic uprisings in the Middle East?
9. If we kill Osama what do we do with the body?
10. How can we make sure it's him?
11. Do we need to make preparations for reprisals?
12. How long do we wait to announce if we're successful?
13. What if the choppers are shot down?

All of these things are possible glitches for which the Navy SEALs had contingency plans. Make no mistake. All of these things, plus many many more had already been projected. No doubt Obama hadn't considered even a fraction of them.

Do you really think experienced fighting forces would need to be told what to do by a community organizer?


tha malcontent May 4, 2011 at 2:23 PM  

ELAshley, I know that my "1^ Hour" post is hard to believe and yes, it's not found all over the place, but try to google it and you'll find it.
And by the way, Rush Limbaugh reported on this today. Exactly as I reported it. Only without my sarcasm...

ELAshley May 4, 2011 at 3:04 PM  

Thanks Mal. I've been doing that. I'm just being cautious... waiting for the dust to settle, as it were.

And thanks for the link.

Jim May 4, 2011 at 10:17 PM  

"Interestingly, I'm finding it difficult to find any of this in a US paper."

Really? I can't imagine why.

Mark May 4, 2011 at 10:38 PM  

I'd tell you why, Jim, but I really don't think you'd like the answer.

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Barry Obama : The Young Turk

Young Turk:
Date: 1908
Function: noun
Etymology: Young Turks, a 20th century revolutionary party in Turkey
:an insurgent or a member of an insurgent group especially in a political party : radical; broadly
:one advocating changes within a usually established group.

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