[insert intemperate thoughts about president & congress]

>> Monday, March 22, 2010

Channeling my inner Michelle...

For the first time in my adult life I am ashamed of my country.
More specifically, I am ashamed of every conservative or republican who, in '06 and '08, voted democrat to teach the Republican party a lesson. Congratulations, you've fucked your country. You've fucked us all. Elections have consequences, and what happens next is all your fault.

Welcome to the end of representative democracy in America. Welcome to totalitarianism in the United States of America. The only comfort I derive from the raping of our Constitution is that you too will suffer.

And I hope it tastes like dust and ash for the remainder of your pathetic miserable days.


Marshall Art March 23, 2010 at 2:55 AM  

Yeah, we're pretty much screwed unless enough people feel some pain ASAP. Will the tax hikes be enough to do it? I kinda doubt it.

The hardest part will be trying to maintain some sense of civility as we continue to spread the word about what is going on. I'm sure there are plenty of lefty asshats doing the happy dance right now, but there are some Barry supporters who are feeling disillusioned. Can't go off half-cocked and scare them into the embrace of the typical lefty waiting to exploit our righteous indignation as proof that we are "haters" or some such crap.

BTW, I channeled MY inner Michelle back in Nov of '08 when her husband was elected by my fellow Americans to be POTUS. I've been ashamed ever since.

BenT - the unbeliever,  March 23, 2010 at 6:47 AM  

"Welcome to the end of representative democracy in America. Welcome to totalitarianism in the United States of America."

That's pretty strong stuff. What do you think the final polling numbers were for the health care reform bill?

75% opposed? Do you think 60% didn't want it to pass? In the end Rasmussen pegged the bill at 53% opposed and 43% in favor.

Barack Obama and almost all the Democratic candidates ran on a platform of reforming health care. This shouldn't be a shock to anyone. After more than a year of debate, this was no midnight bill that no one understands.

When medicare was being debated conservatives of the day predicted the end of American society too. Doctors would be told where to practice. Citizens would be issued dog tags. It's pretty clear none of that has happened. In 20 years you will look back and wonder what you got all riled up about.

Edwin Drood March 23, 2010 at 8:15 AM  

What BenT is trying to say is anyone with a brain knew Barack was going to screw this country.

ELAshley March 23, 2010 at 9:05 AM  

What Ben is trying to say is it doesn't matter whether or not a majority of the nation didn't want the bill. Barack is president, Nancy is Speaker, and it's their bailiwick; they can rule by decree if they wish.

The short of what Ben is saying is this: (and I've already said it)

"Elections Have Consequences"

What Barack and the democrats have done goes beyond the phoney 'mandates' to which parties repeatedly cling, this goes against the consent of the governed. But folk like Ben will say "so what," if it serves the best interest of the nation. But I have to ask, 'best interests' according to who? The 43%? or the 53?

Rasmussen had opposition to Obamacare at 53%? Barack only won his election with 52%. More people DIDN'T want Obamacare, than wanted him elected.

So much for consent of the governed. Forget 'will of the governed,' we have now entered into a brave new paradigm of 'will of the governors'. And THAT, my friends, is not America. We have now become a nation of oath-breakers, and traitors to the Constitution. We have become a nation where our leaders can spit in the face of the will of the people to enact whatever THEY want to give us.

The sooner we chase everyone out of office with a (D) after their name, the sooner this nation can ATTEMPT to fix what is broken in Washington. Even then there's no guarantee Washington will be fixed. But as long as one party believes it has the right to do as it pleases in spite of the will of those they represent, we no longer live in a representative democracy. The America our founders laid out for us in the Constitution is no more.

But to answer some specific points...

"Barack Obama and almost all the Democratic candidates ran on a platform of reforming health care."

Because they ran on a specific platform they are allowed to push that platform on a nation where 53% doesn't want it? Since when does 43% for outweigh 53% against?

"...this was no midnight bill that no one understands."

No one's read the bill (or very very few), not even Barack Obama.

In twenty years, under government run healthcare, I'll likely be dead.

Democrats, in their greed and thirst for unabated power, have destroyed America. In twenty years no one born in my time will recognize this nation. We will all hate our leaders (worse than we do now) and live in fear of them, and what they can do to us.

Ben and I live in two different Americas, because in his America it's fine for leaders to snub the majority in favor of their own pet legislations if they ran on the platforms they're cramming down the majority's throat. In Ben's America it's okay to tax the stinking rich into penury to give the moocher class everything it needs to fail in life.

Well, that's not the America I live in. The America I live in has been over-run by thieves and murderers.

It's time to take our county back.

Rush was right, yesterday, when he said,

"I hear people talking about repeal, and that's great, but there's something that has to happen before we can do that. We can't repeal this thing as we sit here today. We don't have the votes. We didn't have the votes to stop it; we're not going to have the votes to repeal it. We have to start winning elections."

The winning begins this Fall. And as much as I admire my own congressman, Rep. Bobby Bright (D) of Alabama for voting against the health care bill. His first vote as my representative was for Nancy Pelosi for Speaker of the House. And because there's a (D) after his name, he has to go.

ELAshley March 23, 2010 at 9:14 AM  

A CNN poll from February 16 of this year claims that 52% of Americans don't believe he deserves reelction in 2012.

Furthermore, if just because these democrats ran on a platform of fucking over the American people they should then be allowed to do so even though a majority disagrees, well...

McCain garnered a 46% showing in the last election. By Ben's standard McCain's 46% is greater than the healthcare supporter's 43, so Obama should be escorted from the White House and McCain put in his place. That's the kind of country Ben lives in.

ELAshley March 23, 2010 at 9:17 AM  

"That's the kind of country Ben lives in"

The kind that shatters not only the laws of mathematics, but of America as well.

It's okay to break the law if you won the election right? Not according to the likes of Ben during the Bush years.

ELAshley March 23, 2010 at 9:24 AM  

I'm tired of all this. If Liberals can't argue honestly and intelligently, I'm not going to engage them.

My last word on this, to them, is: get your affairs in order, because your days in ascendancy will soon be over.

"Soon" of course is a relative term... if not this Fall in 2010, then in 2012. Even if Barack wins reelection (which I don't believe he will), God willing, he won't be able to push another liberal agenda item through congress again.

There is still hope in this... today. The Supreme Court could very well overturn this colossal constitutional fiasco.

Dan Trabue March 23, 2010 at 9:47 AM  


What Ben is trying to say is it doesn't matter whether or not a majority of the nation didn't want the bill.

I suppose you remember that the majority of the nation was opposed to invading Iraq before we did so. You'll recall, MILLIONS of people around the US and MILLIONS more around the globe - an unprecedented number of people in history - stood opposed to that invasion.

Does that mean you think Bush was wrong for invading against the wishes of the American people?

Beyond that, Eric, my prayer for you is that you would just take a breath and relax. Watch. The END is not here because Congress voted for a piece of legislation that you disagreed with, any more than when Congress has (routinely) voted for legislation that I disagreed with.

It is how our system works. Life goes on. This is just another vote, there will be other votes on other days.

Life is good. God is in control. The sun is shining and Spring is bursting all about us. You'll be okay, just don't go buy a gun or some TNT and do something stupid.

It'll be okay.

Dan Trabue March 23, 2010 at 9:48 AM  


It's okay to break the law if you won the election right?

No, it's not.

What law do you think was broken, Eric?

Edwin Drood March 23, 2010 at 3:43 PM  

They violated the tenth amendment. The Constitution never gave congress the ability to dictate health care, or levy direct taxes on people for not purchasing something.

According to the constitution It should be left up to the states.

I guess the liberal answer will be:
"Democrats raped the constitution before so why not do it again"

Dan, dont bother with youf 1k+ word essay with unrelated hypothetical situations, inaccurate Bush comparisons or massive redefinitions. The idea you accept this shows your bias and inability to think for yourself.

Feodor March 23, 2010 at 5:04 PM  

Thank God for representative democracy.

I'd rather be represented by elected officials than the small number of people who get polled. Polls aren't elections, and that you merge the two speaks volumes about your irrational understanding of governments.

Edmund Burke:

"When the leaders choose to make themselves bidders at an auction of popularity, their talents, in the construction of the state, will be of no service. They will become flatterers instead of legislators; the instruments, not the guides, of the people."

Edwin Drood March 23, 2010 at 9:42 PM  

"I venture to say no war can be long carried on against the will of the people."

Edmund Burke

BenT - the unbeliever,  March 23, 2010 at 11:00 PM  

So what conservatives are doing is relying on the Supreme Court to overturn most of a century of precedents saying that Congress does in fact have wide-ranging powers of taxation and regulation of commerce. Talk about judicial activism!

P.S. As of today health care reform is polling 49% approve to 40% disapprove. What does that mean?

Feodor March 24, 2010 at 5:28 AM  

No one has demonstrated the will of the people since the last election. And we know who was chosen then.

ELAshley March 24, 2010 at 9:02 AM  

What it means Ben is that your ilk clings to and champions polls when said polls suit their ends, and you summarily reject the polls when they do not suit you. It's okay to go against the will of the people when polls show a clear majority of Americans DO NOT want government-run health care, but the day after, when the inevitable bounce occurs, you jump up and say, SEE? Americans DO want healthcare.

Congress has still imposed IT'S will upon a populace that did NOT want government-run healthcare. Congress has only a 14% approval rating. Pelosi has only an 11% approval rating. Reid has only an 8% approval rating. And yet they feel they are justified in tearing down the fabric of personal liberty simply because they desire a future unimpeachable democratic majority in the decades to come. What'll come next, I wonder? Immigration reform? Making all the illegals legal and grateful to a party that condoned their law-breaking and bestowed upon them FREE healthcare. More democratic voters to keep democrats in power.

Dan Trabue March 24, 2010 at 9:29 AM  

If you don't like it, Eric, convince enough of your fellow citizens to vote your way. This is how a Republic works.

Man, I've lived just about my whole adult life seriously displeased with the direction of gov't. The Reagan/Bush/Bush years were just miserable for me, and the Clinton years often weren't much better. It remains to be seen about the Obama administration.

But apparently my desires were in the minority and I had been unable to convince enough of my fellow citizens to agree with me to demand change in the direction of our Great Republic.

Thus is life in this Republic. It's how it works. I didn't like (along with the majority of Americans) our direction in Latin America in the 1980s. I didn't like Bush's invasion of Iraq.

Work for change if you don't like it. I will continue to do so.

But try to have a bit of a sense of humor about it. At least when I felt at my grimmest, it was because lives were being taken and destroyed. In your case, you're just concerned about some bills that have not gone your way.

Pardon me if I find that less than compelling reason to think this nation has come to its end. If we can withstand the lawlessness of the Reagan/Bush/Bush years, we can certainly withstand the passage of a bill or two that we aren't pleased with.

Relax. Pray. Meditate. Self-medicate, if necessary. Life will go on.

ELAshley March 24, 2010 at 9:54 AM  

what you're failing to grasp Dan is I DID have a MAJORITY of my countrymen on my side. Congress didn't care, and they voted against me and my countrymen's wishes.

"Thus is life in this Republic. It's how it works."

Well, yes, OBVIOUSLY this is the way it works, will of the people be damned. It's working WRONGLY Dan. Congress is supposed to represent the will of the people... not their own selfish political wills.

ELAshley March 24, 2010 at 9:57 AM  

They did not have a mandate to pass this. Simply being in the majority is not mandate enough. Had Republicans done this YOU, Ben, Feodor and everyone else on YOUR side would be screaming bloody murder. You know this is true, so don't lie about it.

Dan Trabue March 24, 2010 at 10:04 AM  

Brother Eric. I KNOW it works wrongly sometimes. See much of the last eight years of Bush.

HE went against the will of the people to invade a sovereign nation taking thousands of LIVES in the process. You can bet I was disgusted at that breach of the will of the people.

But EVEN THAT horror did not destroy this great Republic, although I'm sure it has wounded it.

Our nation is not perfect, but this is how it works. Our elected representatives are elected to look at all the data (hopefully free from the corrupting influence of cash from disreputable PACs and lobbyists) and make what they think is the best decision. We are not a democracy. We don't just go to the polls and vote for this tax raise to pay for roads and that tax cut in ending a program and 51% of the people decide our policies. We are a REPRESENTATIVE REPUBLIC.

This IS how it works. If you don't like it, join the club. It's not a perfect system. Neither would a strict Democracy be a perfect system. Neither would a human-led theocracy be a perfect system.

Sometimes we don't get our way, that's just the way it works. That we don't get our way - even if a bill passes that the majority of Americans don't approve of - it's still the way it works and that it is working as it was designed to work is not an indication of the end of the Republic.

You want to be have a legitimate worry about something that would corrupt our Republic - look to vote buying and unethical lobbyists and legislators in the pocket of corporations - now THAT'S a legitimate threat to the system.

Dan Trabue March 24, 2010 at 10:06 AM  

Had Republicans done this YOU, Ben, Feodor and everyone else on YOUR side would be screaming bloody murder. You know this is true, so don't lie about it.

Yes, we DID complain when Bush INVADED a country against the will of the people, killing tens of thousands in the process and undermining our national security.

I'm not saying don't complain. I'm saying it's not Totalitarianism. It's not the "raping of the Constitution." It's not illegal. It's just the way it works.

As I recall, you did not seem so concerned about the Will of the People when Bush was invading a sovereign nation, killing tens of thousands, right?

ELAshley March 24, 2010 at 10:22 AM  

According to one 2003 USA Today/Gallop Poll 75% of respondents thought the invasion of Iraq was NOT wrong. Most other polls showed that support for the invasion, depending on how the question was phrased, was between 55-65% (58% according to CNN/USA Today, 57% according to the LA Times, and 67% according to Fox).

By 2007 all this was reversed and more.

I think, Dan, you're reading public sentiment toward the end of Bush's second term as being identical, or representative of, the nation's feelings toward the Iraq invasion at the beginning.

Bush didn't wait for the U.N., true, but the will of the people, according to polls, was squarely on his side.

As to what the world thought... it's irrelevant to the point. The world doesn't vote in our elections. Americans do.

BenT - the unbeliever,  March 24, 2010 at 10:28 AM  

My point was that you are dead wrong when you characterize health care reform as being hugely, massively, overwhelmingly, significantly unpopular. There was never a disapproval rate above 60% for health care reform.

Secondarily it appears in this internet age it is really easy to mislead a lot of people. Remember everyone who thought Saddam Hussein was behind the 9/11 attacks?

I also echo all of Dan's points. The will of the American populace is a quickly changing thing. Saturday HCR had a -10% popularity. Monday it had +9. We can't make or approve large reforms based on such ephemeral things as poll numbers. Our elected representatives have to look beyond the sways of the polls to what is best for the country. That is why civil rights legislation was approved against the will of segregationist southern democrats.

ELAshley March 24, 2010 at 11:02 AM  

What astounds me about this debate is the hypocrisy you and these others are displaying because, were it Republicans pushing through something a majority of democratic voters disapproved of, you'd be right where I am right now, arguing my exact points.

Dan Trabue March 24, 2010 at 11:46 AM  

No hypocrisy at all, Eric. I'm not saying you shouldn't complain and point out problems with a piece of legislation if you disagree with it.

All I'm saying is that you ought not make your case overblown.

Say, "This Health Care Bill will cost WAY too much and provide WAY too little and it's just a poor solution to the problems of healthcare..."

DON'T say, "This bill is a descent into totalitarianism and our nation is coming to its end..."

Beyond that, I'm suggesting you relax a bit. You'll blow a gasket or suffer a breakdown and that's not good for anyone. Save your BIG outrage for matters of life and death, not just disputes over this bill or that.

Edwin Drood March 24, 2010 at 4:11 PM  

I agree with out Liberal friends that elected leaders should not legislate by opinion polls. That being said, congressmen need to listen to their constituents. Congress is more worried about the President and the party then they are their own states. My guess is they are banking on the stupidity of people who vote democrat, honestly it's a good bet.

There is no way most states represented by Democrats can afford the federally mandated programs that come with this bill. When it ends in crisis I'm sure all of our liberal friends will think up some excuse like they always do. Remember, home ownership was a right Dems fought for, see how that turned out.

Dan Trabue March 24, 2010 at 4:20 PM  

For the record, I have no opinion about this particular health bill. I'm just not informed enough to be for or against it. My opinion is that what we have now is not working great, but I'm not sure that this is a good solution, either. Maybe, maybe not. I just don't know.

My only point here has been to suggest that those who fear our country is collapsing into socialism and that they're coming to take your guns away next and soon, we'll be licking the feet of Satan, well, that they're hyperventilating over nothing.

This will probably be somewhere between a sorta good effort at dealing with health care issues to a sorta bad effort. But it's not totalitarianism, nor is it a reason to start shooting your neighbors or assassinating lawmakers. It's just another imperfect attempt by an imperfect gov't at dealing with imperfect problems. Life goes on.

Disagree if you wish with the plan, but do so without going nuts. It's not good for you or anyone else.

ELAshley March 24, 2010 at 4:43 PM  

"When it ends in crisis I'm sure all of our liberal friends will think up some excuse like they always do."

Obama/Robert Gibbs: "And let's not forget, we inherited much of this..."

They'll blame it on Bush.

ELAshley March 24, 2010 at 5:18 PM  

Good grief, Dan! No one here has made any mention of:

a) they're coming to take your guns away.
b) we'll be licking the feet of Satan, or
c) a reason to start shooting your neighbors or assassinating lawmakers.

You inserting this kind of rhetoric mischaracterizes my position, and the positions of Mark and Marshall. No one is hyperventilating here. We are genuinely worried about the direction this country is headed.

Social Security is on the verge of collapse, and now Democrats want to add another trillion a year to the deficit? This is a recipe for disaster.

And since you admit you aren't informed enough to make an opinion one way or the other, your characterization of us as irrational chicken little's is more than a bit disingenuous of you.

Over the years you and I have come to an understanding of sorts. I respect you. As I'm sure you respect me, despite our political disagreements. But please refrain from characterizing me in this disparaging light, especially since you've yet to properly inform yourself on the subject.

If is sounds crazy to you, fine. It sounds crazy to me that Pelosi and Reid, with respective approval ratings of 11 and 8% feel they had the mandate to push what was prior to their railroading of healthcare more unpopular than popular.

Did you hear what Obama told an Ohio crowd last week? That passage of the healthcare bill would lower insurance premiums by 3,000%? This statistic has no basis of fact, let alone reality.

Where in our Constitution is our government given the power to force it's citizens to buy a product, with fines and jail-time the penalty for refusal? The commerce clause? Sorry, but the commerce clause gives congress the power to regulate commerce already occurring, but it doesn't give congress the power to engage in commerce (but since congress has been engaging in commerce for years, the point is moot).

Our government insists we purchase auto insurance for liability purposes only; no one is being forced to buy a car or drive on public roadways.

On top of this, with the signing of this new bill into law, the government is going to hire 16,000 new IRS agents. As if the IRS weren't oppressive enough. Now the IRS is going to be in the business of ensuring everyone has insurance? What? A family that can't afford to buy insurance will have their homes confiscated by the IRS? Bank accounts frozen?

Come on, Dan! When is too much government too much?

Do you really believe these congressmen and women have actually read the bill? Themselves? Or did they rely on staffers?

What happened to the most ethical, above the board congress in the history of the country speaker Pelosi promised three years ago?

Dems bent over backward to publicize republican corruption but has, in like manner, bent over backward to hide, condone, and otherwise excuse a growing list of democratic imbibers of corruption.

I'm just saying!

The right isn't lily white, but neither is the left. Motives matter, and thus far neither Nancy, Harry, OR Obama have demonstrated to me their motives are grounded in what's best for ALL Americans. Their motives thus far have been self-serving.

If this healthcare bill were so good, why are lawmakers and congressional employees exempt from this wonderful new IRS-imposed "right to healthcare"?

Edwin Drood March 24, 2010 at 8:09 PM  

Whats this. . . Dan using "unrelated hypothetical situations" I called it @ 3:43. so predictable.

Can anyone of the liberals followers find a way to defend the non-funded state mandates. Since you're all a bunch of libs I'll explain it to you. The Bills commands states to expand Medicade but the federal government won't fund the expansion. This means the states have to pay for a law the federal government passed. Where will the states get the money?

PS. If this bill is so great why did the congress exempt themselves from it and why don't you feel like a bunch of tools?

Dan Trabue March 24, 2010 at 9:29 PM  

Eric, you are the one using the term "totalitarianism." As to the other examples, I'll admit I had that on my mind because one of your friends on another blog is saying we may be getting close to needing armed rebellion.

Bloviating Zeppelin March 25, 2010 at 12:11 AM  

I didn't like McCain, McCain's a RINO through and through; my vote was, frankly, more for Palin. But I still voted Republican. I cannot tell you, however, how many alleged Republicans, though, STAYED AWAY from the polls that day because their ideal Conservative candidate was not chosen. To those persons I say: welcome to your new world.


ELAshley March 25, 2010 at 6:18 AM  

Yes, BZ. Forget Obama's win in '08, all this is happening because Republicans chose to "teach Republicans a lesson" in '06 and '08.

Bloviating Zeppelin March 25, 2010 at 6:35 AM  

I don't disagree with that statement at all. And boy, I guess we're ALL "taught" now, aren't we?


Jim March 26, 2010 at 9:31 PM  

If this bill is so great why did the congress exempt themselves from it and why don't you feel like a bunch of tools?

Well, for one thing it is false that congress exempted themselves from the law. They did not. So why would any of us feel like a bunch of tools?

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