tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post6489662811105306823..comments2023-05-10T04:52:13.662-05:00Comments on American Descent: [insert intemperate thoughts about president & congress]Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-16664764396576494982010-03-26T21:31:37.739-05:002010-03-26T21:31:37.739-05:00If this bill is so great why did the congress exem...<i>If this bill is so great why did the congress exempt themselves from it and why don't you feel like a bunch of tools?</i><br /><br />Well, for one thing it is false that congress exempted themselves from the law. They did not. So why would any of us feel like a bunch of tools?Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10004209843701697773noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-7049082170383688902010-03-25T06:35:53.278-05:002010-03-25T06:35:53.278-05:00I don't disagree with that statement at all. ...I don't disagree with that statement at all. And boy, I guess we're ALL "taught" now, aren't we?<br /><br />BZBloviating Zeppelinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01359816456769157176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-73930260360162478492010-03-25T06:18:30.226-05:002010-03-25T06:18:30.226-05:00Yes, BZ. Forget Obama's win in '08, all th...Yes, BZ. Forget Obama's win in '08, all this is happening because Republicans chose to "teach Republicans a lesson" in '06 and '08.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08874712703862427318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-8180243241964527292010-03-25T00:11:34.748-05:002010-03-25T00:11:34.748-05:00I didn't like McCain, McCain's a RINO thro...I didn't like McCain, McCain's a RINO through and through; my vote was, frankly, more for Palin. But I still voted Republican. I cannot tell you, however, how many alleged Republicans, though, STAYED AWAY from the polls that day because their ideal Conservative candidate was not chosen. To those persons I say: welcome to your new world.<br /><br />BZBloviating Zeppelinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01359816456769157176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-44393666198649035572010-03-24T21:29:12.457-05:002010-03-24T21:29:12.457-05:00Eric, you are the one using the term "totalit...Eric, you are the one using the term "totalitarianism." As to the other examples, I'll admit I had that on my mind because one of your friends on another blog is saying we may be getting close to needing armed rebellion.Dan Trabuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303597141397042669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-21870612830115554442010-03-24T20:09:15.439-05:002010-03-24T20:09:15.439-05:00Whats this. . . Dan using "unrelated hypothe...Whats this. . . Dan using "unrelated hypothetical situations" I called it @ 3:43. so predictable.<br /><br /><br />Can anyone of the liberals followers find a way to defend the non-funded state mandates. Since you're all a bunch of libs I'll explain it to you. The Bills commands states to expand Medicade but the federal government won't fund the expansion. This means the states have to pay for a law the federal government passed. Where will the states get the money?<br /><br />PS. If this bill is so great why did the congress exempt themselves from it and why don't you feel like a bunch of tools?Edwin Droodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07734335669101499685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-76695009497811116172010-03-24T17:18:22.231-05:002010-03-24T17:18:22.231-05:00Good grief, Dan! No one here has made any mention ...Good grief, Dan! No one here has made any mention of:<br /><br />a) they're coming to take your guns away.<br />b) we'll be licking the feet of Satan, or<br />c) a reason to start shooting your neighbors or assassinating lawmakers.<br /><br />You inserting this kind of rhetoric mischaracterizes my position, and the positions of Mark and Marshall. No one is hyperventilating here. We are genuinely worried about the direction this country is headed.<br /><br />Social Security is on the verge of collapse, and now Democrats want to add another trillion a year to the deficit? This is a recipe for disaster. <br /><br />And since you admit you aren't informed enough to make an opinion one way or the other, your characterization of us as irrational chicken little's is more than a bit disingenuous of you.<br /><br />Over the years you and I have come to an understanding of sorts. I respect you. As I'm sure you respect me, despite our political disagreements. But please refrain from characterizing me in this disparaging light, especially since you've yet to properly inform yourself on the subject.<br /><br />If is sounds crazy to you, fine. It sounds crazy to me that Pelosi and Reid, with respective approval ratings of 11 and 8% feel they had the mandate to push what was prior to their railroading of healthcare more unpopular than popular. <br /><br />Did you hear what Obama told an Ohio crowd last week? That passage of the healthcare bill would lower insurance premiums by 3,000%? This statistic has no basis of fact, let alone reality. <br /><br />Where in our Constitution is our government given the power to force it's citizens to buy a product, with fines and jail-time the penalty for refusal? The commerce clause? Sorry, but the commerce clause gives congress the power to regulate commerce already occurring, but it doesn't give congress the power to engage in commerce (but since congress has been engaging in commerce for years, the point is moot).<br /><br />Our government insists we purchase auto insurance for liability purposes only; no one is being forced to buy a car or drive on public roadways.<br /><br />On top of this, with the signing of this new bill into law, the government is going to hire 16,000 new IRS agents. As if the IRS weren't oppressive enough. Now the IRS is going to be in the business of ensuring everyone has insurance? What? A family that can't afford to buy insurance will have their homes confiscated by the IRS? Bank accounts frozen?<br /><br />Come on, Dan! When is too much government too much?<br /><br />Do you really believe these congressmen and women have actually read the bill? Themselves? Or did they rely on staffers?<br /><br />What happened to the most ethical, above the board congress in the history of the country speaker Pelosi promised three years ago?<br /><br />Dems bent over backward to publicize republican corruption but has, in like manner, bent over backward to hide, condone, and otherwise excuse a growing list of democratic imbibers of corruption.<br /><br />I'm just saying! <br /><br />The right isn't lily white, but neither is the left. Motives matter, and thus far neither Nancy, Harry, OR Obama have demonstrated to me their motives are grounded in what's best for ALL Americans. Their motives thus far have been self-serving. <br /><br />If this healthcare bill were so good, why are lawmakers and congressional employees exempt from this wonderful new IRS-imposed "right to healthcare"?Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08874712703862427318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-51077825931120703892010-03-24T16:43:46.161-05:002010-03-24T16:43:46.161-05:00"When it ends in crisis I'm sure all of o...<i>"When it ends in crisis I'm sure all of our liberal friends will think up some excuse like they always do."</i><br /><br />Obama/Robert Gibbs: "And let's not forget, we inherited much of this..."<br /><br />They'll blame it on Bush.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08874712703862427318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-87682497219510154992010-03-24T16:20:42.084-05:002010-03-24T16:20:42.084-05:00For the record, I have no opinion about this parti...For the record, I have no opinion about this particular health bill. I'm just not informed enough to be for or against it. My opinion is that what we have now is not working great, but I'm not sure that this is a good solution, either. Maybe, maybe not. I just don't know.<br /><br />My only point here has been to suggest that those who fear our country is collapsing into socialism and that they're coming to take your guns away next and soon, we'll be licking the feet of Satan, well, that they're hyperventilating over nothing.<br /><br />This will probably be somewhere between a sorta good effort at dealing with health care issues to a sorta bad effort. But it's not totalitarianism, nor is it a reason to start shooting your neighbors or assassinating lawmakers. It's just another imperfect attempt by an imperfect gov't at dealing with imperfect problems. Life goes on.<br /><br />Disagree if you wish with the plan, but do so without going nuts. It's not good for you or anyone else.Dan Trabuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303597141397042669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-47161411572032692502010-03-24T16:11:04.300-05:002010-03-24T16:11:04.300-05:00I agree with out Liberal friends that elected lead...I agree with out Liberal friends that elected leaders should not legislate by opinion polls. That being said, congressmen need to listen to their constituents. Congress is more worried about the President and the party then they are their own states. My guess is they are banking on the stupidity of people who vote democrat, honestly it's a good bet. <br /><br />There is no way most states represented by Democrats can afford the federally mandated programs that come with this bill. When it ends in crisis I'm sure all of our liberal friends will think up some excuse like they always do. Remember, home ownership was a right Dems fought for, see how that turned out.Edwin Droodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07734335669101499685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-31838366983783772432010-03-24T11:46:14.288-05:002010-03-24T11:46:14.288-05:00No hypocrisy at all, Eric. I'm not saying you ...No hypocrisy at all, Eric. I'm not saying you shouldn't complain and point out problems with a piece of legislation if you disagree with it.<br /><br />All I'm saying is that you ought not make your case overblown. <br /><br />Say, "This Health Care Bill will cost WAY too much and provide WAY too little and it's just a poor solution to the problems of healthcare..." <br /><br />DON'T say, "This bill is a descent into totalitarianism and our nation is coming to its end..."<br /><br />Beyond that, I'm suggesting you relax a bit. You'll blow a gasket or suffer a breakdown and that's not good for anyone. Save your BIG outrage for matters of life and death, not just disputes over this bill or that.Dan Trabuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303597141397042669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-26323354558692327702010-03-24T11:02:08.204-05:002010-03-24T11:02:08.204-05:00What astounds me about this debate is the hypocris...What astounds me about this debate is the hypocrisy you and these others are displaying because, were it Republicans pushing through something a majority of democratic voters disapproved of, you'd be right where I am right now, arguing my exact points.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08874712703862427318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-59552429723157175792010-03-24T10:28:19.703-05:002010-03-24T10:28:19.703-05:00My point was that you are dead wrong when you char...My point was that you are dead wrong when you characterize health care reform as being hugely, massively, overwhelmingly, significantly unpopular. There was never a disapproval rate above 60% for health care reform. <br /><br />Secondarily it appears in this internet age it is really easy to mislead a lot of people. Remember everyone who thought Saddam Hussein was behind the 9/11 attacks? <br /><br />I also echo all of Dan's points. The will of the American populace is a quickly changing thing. Saturday HCR had a -10% popularity. Monday it had +9. We can't make or approve large reforms based on such ephemeral things as poll numbers. Our elected representatives have to look beyond the sways of the polls to what is best for the country. That is why civil rights legislation was approved against the will of segregationist southern democrats.BenT - the unbelievernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-32220576844405513272010-03-24T10:22:10.591-05:002010-03-24T10:22:10.591-05:00According to one 2003 USA Today/Gallop Poll 75% of...According to one 2003 USA Today/Gallop Poll 75% of respondents thought the invasion of Iraq was NOT wrong. Most other polls showed that support for the invasion, depending on how the question was phrased, was between 55-65% (58% according to CNN/USA Today, 57% according to the LA Times, and 67% according to Fox).<br /><br />By 2007 all this was reversed and more. <br /><br />I think, Dan, you're reading public sentiment toward the end of Bush's second term as being identical, or representative of, the nation's feelings toward the Iraq invasion at the beginning.<br /><br />Bush didn't wait for the U.N., true, but the will of the people, according to polls, was squarely on his side.<br /><br />As to what the world thought... it's irrelevant to the point. The world doesn't vote in our elections. Americans do.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08874712703862427318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-73747307119018179882010-03-24T10:06:41.276-05:002010-03-24T10:06:41.276-05:00Had Republicans done this YOU, Ben, Feodor and eve...<i>Had Republicans done this YOU, Ben, Feodor and everyone else on YOUR side would be screaming bloody murder. You know this is true, so don't lie about it.</i><br /><br />Yes, we DID complain when Bush INVADED a country against the will of the people, killing tens of thousands in the process and undermining our national security.<br /><br />I'm not saying don't complain. I'm saying it's not Totalitarianism. It's not the "raping of the Constitution." It's not illegal. It's just the way it works.<br /><br />As I recall, you did not seem so concerned about the Will of the People when Bush was invading a sovereign nation, killing tens of thousands, right?Dan Trabuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303597141397042669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-82142068771277376672010-03-24T10:04:09.727-05:002010-03-24T10:04:09.727-05:00Brother Eric. I KNOW it works wrongly sometimes. S...Brother Eric. I KNOW it works wrongly sometimes. See much of the last eight years of Bush.<br /><br />HE went against the will of the people to invade a sovereign nation taking thousands of LIVES in the process. You can bet I was disgusted at that breach of the will of the people.<br /><br />But EVEN THAT horror did not destroy this great Republic, although I'm sure it has wounded it. <br /><br />Our nation is not perfect, but this is how it works. Our elected representatives are elected to look at all the data (hopefully free from the corrupting influence of cash from disreputable PACs and lobbyists) and make what they think is the best decision. We are not a democracy. We don't just go to the polls and vote for this tax raise to pay for roads and that tax cut in ending a program and 51% of the people decide our policies. We are a REPRESENTATIVE REPUBLIC.<br /><br />This IS how it works. If you don't like it, join the club. It's not a perfect system. Neither would a strict Democracy be a perfect system. Neither would a human-led theocracy be a perfect system.<br /><br />Sometimes we don't get our way, that's just the way it works. That we don't get our way - even if a bill passes that the majority of Americans don't approve of - it's still the way it works and that it is working as it was designed to work is not an indication of the end of the Republic.<br /><br />You want to be have a legitimate worry about something that would corrupt our Republic - look to vote buying and unethical lobbyists and legislators in the pocket of corporations - now THAT'S a legitimate threat to the system.Dan Trabuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303597141397042669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-70076963818590858462010-03-24T09:57:00.136-05:002010-03-24T09:57:00.136-05:00They did not have a mandate to pass this. Simply b...They did not have a mandate to pass this. Simply being in the majority is not mandate enough. Had Republicans done this YOU, Ben, Feodor and everyone else on YOUR side would be screaming bloody murder. You know this is true, so don't lie about it.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08874712703862427318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-64218336863722215692010-03-24T09:54:42.592-05:002010-03-24T09:54:42.592-05:00what you're failing to grasp Dan is I DID have...what you're failing to grasp Dan is I DID have a MAJORITY of my countrymen on my side. Congress didn't care, and they voted against me and my countrymen's wishes.<br /><br /><i>"Thus is life in this Republic. It's how it works."</i><br /><br />Well, yes, OBVIOUSLY this is the way it works, will of the people be damned. It's working WRONGLY Dan. Congress is supposed to represent the will of the people... not their own selfish political wills.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08874712703862427318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-53975102468977945912010-03-24T09:29:19.244-05:002010-03-24T09:29:19.244-05:00If you don't like it, Eric, convince enough of...If you don't like it, Eric, convince enough of your fellow citizens to vote your way. This is how a Republic works.<br /><br />Man, I've lived just about my whole adult life seriously displeased with the direction of gov't. The Reagan/Bush/Bush years were just miserable for me, and the Clinton years often weren't much better. It remains to be seen about the Obama administration.<br /><br />But apparently my desires were in the minority and I had been unable to convince enough of my fellow citizens to agree with me to demand change in the direction of our Great Republic.<br /><br />Thus is life in this Republic. It's how it works. I didn't like (along with the majority of Americans) our direction in Latin America in the 1980s. I didn't like Bush's invasion of Iraq.<br /><br />Work for change if you don't like it. I will continue to do so.<br /><br />But try to have a bit of a sense of humor about it. At least when I felt at my grimmest, it was because lives were being taken and destroyed. In your case, you're just concerned about some bills that have not gone your way.<br /><br />Pardon me if I find that less than compelling reason to think this nation has come to its end. If we can withstand the lawlessness of the Reagan/Bush/Bush years, we can certainly withstand the passage of a bill or two that we aren't pleased with.<br /><br />Relax. Pray. Meditate. Self-medicate, if necessary. Life will go on.Dan Trabuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303597141397042669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-79634768019671870962010-03-24T09:02:17.635-05:002010-03-24T09:02:17.635-05:00What it means Ben is that your ilk clings to and c...What it means Ben is that your ilk clings to and champions polls when said polls suit their ends, and you summarily reject the polls when they do not suit you. It's okay to go against the will of the people when polls show a clear majority of Americans DO NOT want government-run health care, but the day after, when the inevitable bounce occurs, you jump up and say, SEE? Americans DO want healthcare.<br /><br />Congress has still imposed IT'S will upon a populace that did NOT want government-run healthcare. Congress has only a 14% approval rating. Pelosi has only an 11% approval rating. Reid has only an 8% approval rating. And yet they feel they are justified in tearing down the fabric of personal liberty simply because they desire a future unimpeachable democratic majority in the decades to come. What'll come next, I wonder? Immigration reform? Making all the illegals legal and grateful to a party that condoned their law-breaking and bestowed upon them FREE healthcare. More democratic voters to keep democrats in power.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08874712703862427318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-6491802929125872132010-03-24T05:28:41.172-05:002010-03-24T05:28:41.172-05:00No one has demonstrated the will of the people sin...No one has demonstrated the will of the people since the last election. And we know who was chosen then.Feodorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02216659885831979653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-5655604574496481762010-03-23T23:00:45.635-05:002010-03-23T23:00:45.635-05:00So what conservatives are doing is relying on the ...So what conservatives are doing is relying on the Supreme Court to overturn most of a century of precedents saying that Congress does in fact have wide-ranging powers of taxation and regulation of commerce. Talk about judicial activism!<br /><br />P.S. As of today health care reform is polling 49% approve to 40% disapprove. What does that mean?BenT - the unbelievernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-41189102380454072912010-03-23T21:42:54.165-05:002010-03-23T21:42:54.165-05:00"I venture to say no war can be long carried ..."I venture to say no war can be long carried on against the will of the people."<br /><br />Edmund BurkeEdwin Droodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07734335669101499685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-8419180291791062462010-03-23T17:04:47.275-05:002010-03-23T17:04:47.275-05:00Thank God for representative democracy.
I'd r...Thank God for representative democracy.<br /><br />I'd rather be represented by elected officials than the small number of people who get polled. Polls aren't elections, and that you merge the two speaks volumes about your irrational understanding of governments.<br /><br />Edmund Burke:<br /><br />"When the leaders choose to make themselves bidders at an auction of popularity, their talents, in the construction of the state, will be of no service. They will become flatterers instead of legislators; the instruments, not the guides, of the people."Feodorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02216659885831979653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-570497968855832694.post-72555190356933217932010-03-23T15:43:11.415-05:002010-03-23T15:43:11.415-05:00They violated the tenth amendment. The Constituti...They violated the tenth amendment. The Constitution never gave congress the ability to dictate health care, or levy direct taxes on people for not purchasing something. <br /><br />According to the constitution It should be left up to the states. <br /><br />I guess the liberal answer will be:<br /> "Democrats raped the constitution before so why not do it again"<br /><br />Dan, dont bother with youf 1k+ word essay with unrelated hypothetical situations, inaccurate Bush comparisons or massive redefinitions. The idea you accept this shows your bias and inability to think for yourself.Edwin Droodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07734335669101499685noreply@blogger.com